Notes and questions about PED use in woman.

[tornpt]

Hello ladies, i've been exploring this topic of general PED use, Im not a woman, but i think this post could bring some food for though specially for woman who are new to this topic.

DISCLAIMER #1: i am a man and a very recent PED user, so please don't do anything based on the information below alone. If you need guidance please talk to someone who knows and have experience about woman PED use.​

First i would like to point out one of the worst on woman who are on PEDs, Virilization. During the early days of PED use men where becoming women by growing boobs and women were becoming men. Men didnt know about aromatization and women were executing protocols designed for man. Luckly for man Gyno is reversible by cirurgical procedure but unfortunatelly some of the changes are irreversible on woman.

Woman produce naturally about 1.5–7mg/week, depending on health, age and genetics. They produce it in ovaries (~25%), adrenals (~25%), and conversion of DHEA (~50%). Men produce about 30-70mg/week. Just like in men when you start taking anabolic steroids your natural production of testosterone will shutdown. I dont know how far "enhanced women" push the 7mg of androgen or even if they keep it lower than 7mg purposefully. I just know that you dont want to keep it in the same range as a natural men's production.

In very simple terms testosterone has two parts. The androgenic and anabolic. Androgenic is the part that produces "male traits". Anabolic is the part that produces muscles.

I think in here woman and men converge a bit, because men will also have nasty side effects if their androgen load is too high. So what becomes the goal for both genders? Getting a better than natural anabolic state without getting nasty side effects coming from high doses of androgens. A bit more complex than this specially for man because high anabolic loads seem to produce some kind neuro-degenerative effect. I dont know if woman could have problems with high anabolic load before they have problem from high androgens.

Some compounds are more anabolic others are more androgenic. You, specially as a woman, have to choose the compounds that offer you a good anabolic/androgen relationship. Below we will do some basic math just to demonstrate how this would work.

DISCLAIMER #2: Below i will provide a table with anabolic/androgenic values. I dont know the real accuracy of these values. I think they are probably good approximations but dont make decisions on what i write here.​

Injectables
| Compound | Anabolic | Androgenic
|--------------------------------------------|------------------------------------|------------
| Boldenone | 100 | 50
| Drostanolone | 62 | 25
| Dihydroboldenone | ≈200 | ≈100
| Primobolan | 88 | 44
| Nandrolone | 125 | 37
| Testosterone | 100 | 100
| Trenbolone | 500 | 500
| Trestolone MENT | ≈650 | ≈300

Orals
| Compound | Anabolic | Androgenic
|--------------------------------------------|------------------------------------|------------
| Turinabol (T-bol) | 54 | 6
| Fluoxymest (Halotestin) | 1 900 | 850
| Mesterolone (Proviron) | 100–150 | 30–40
| Methandienone (Dianabol) | 90–210 | 40–60
| Methasterone (Superdrol) | 400 | 20
| Oxandrolone (Anavar) | 322–630 | 24
| Oxymetholone (Anadrol) | 320 | 45
| Stanozolol (Winstrol) | 320 | 30

SARMs
| Compound | Anabolic | Androgenic
|--------------------------------------------|------------------------------------|------------
| Testolone (RAD-140) | 90 | ≈1
| Ligandrol (LGD-4033) | >500 | ≈1
| Andarine (S-4) | ≈15 | ≈5
| Ostarine (MK-2866) | ≈12 | ≈3
| Mastorin (S-23) | ≈40 | ≈10

Disclaimer #3: All the math done below is just a theoric exercise that is only considering anabolic and androgenic values, ignoring completly each compound individuallity which could have diferrent effects between genders. And you should probably stay away from SARMs.​

So since i dont really know what are same values for avoiding virilization on woman i will assume a 7mg woman still mantains a "feminine figure".

Analizing the table we can see that is a SARM, Ligrandrol that offers you the best anabolic/androgenic ratio. But i never heard any pro male or female says that he/she uses it. There sure must be a reason for it. It probably harms you more than it helps.

So 7mg of test weakly has an androgenic power of 700 in Ligrandrol while mantaining the same androgenic value would be 700*7mg=4900mg of Ligrandrol. Your natural 7mg of test had an abolic power of 700 and 4900mg of ligrandrol gives your 4900mg*500 = 2_450_000(2.45MILLION) anabolic power or the same anabolic power as 24500mg(24.5g) of test a week. Again, there sure must be a reason why people dont use it.

So lets analyze the best oral ratio which is by anavar. Considering the best value of 630 anabolic and 24 androgenic. So you can take 700(woman natural test androgen power) divide by 24 (androgen power of anavar) in anavar approximately 29 times. So 7mg of testosterone in anavar is approximatly 203mg of anavar weekly or 29mg daily. Which seems kinda high for a woman most i know even go bellow 20mg a day. 29mg of anavar a day is the equivalent of anabolic power has 653,66mg - 1278mg of test a week. Which is not to off specially considering some pro female athletes that go on things like 20g anavar a day and like 50mg of primo/masteron per week. This indicates that even pros dont push this limit too far or even keep below it.

I was going to write more but its getting late so 29mg/day Anavar Is a Max Threshold, Not a Target.

 

[enaveso]

Great contribution, I'm surprised by the ratio of oxymetholone, which is very anabolic and not very androgenic compared to other products that are less demonized...

 

[tornpt]

Great contribution, I'm surprised by the ratio of oxymetholone, which is very anabolic and not very androgenic compared to other products that are less demonized...

yeah, i know that some pro female coaches are switching from anavar to oxymetholone. Oxymetholone isnt has anabolic but will probably compensate for the fact that your training will be more productive. The problem on woman is to have to split a 50mg oxymetholone pill 5 or 10 ways. Maybe a future market oportunity for driada.

 

[BellaMasculine]

Sorry for coming in like a wrecking ball now but:

You mention a lot of maths in here which "may can be" but as we already recognized (esp men) is that not every PED works as in "studies or maths" in every single body.
Some do have sides at 250mg Test a week, some dont have any.
Some loose hair very fast, some have hair until they die
...
Same for women, some get bad sides with running 5mg anavar a day and some go 20mg a day and they feel great and do have no sides, also that "29mg anavar is a max threshold not a target" is totally wrong in that case.
You cant go per maths when it comes to medication, esp in medicine abuse.

Also some compounds you are mentioning here ARENT for women at all! I think youre a lot in social media and stuff where people talk a lot of shit or giving bad advice (as your coach in the commercial gym you mentioned).
Also I never heared that pro female bb or coaches are switching from anavar to oxys... even when it sounds stupid but the goal of good pro coaches or athletes is to keep the feminine style and var is one of the best and softest compounds for that, also many athletes dont even need any compound until they are on a certain level for like bikini girl, esp there ped abuse is the wrong way to be a sucsessful athlete.

There are black sheep yes but they arent sucsessful or healthy at all.
Dont risk your health and your feminine look for not gaining anything.

Get in touch with people who do have knowledge and experience with women in general and esp peds

 

[tornpt]

Sorry for coming in like a wrecking ball now but:

You mention a lot of maths in here which "may can be" but as we already recognized (esp men) is that not every PED works as in "studies or maths" in every single body.
Some do have sides at 250mg Test a week, some dont have any.
Some loose hair very fast, some have hair until they die
...
Same for women, some get bad sides with running 5mg anavar a day and some go 20mg a day and they feel great and do have no sides, also that "29mg anavar is a max threshold not a target" is totally wrong in that case.
You cant go per maths when it comes to medication, esp in medicine abuse.

Also some compounds you are mentioning here ARENT for women at all! I think youre a lot in social media and stuff where people talk a lot of shit or giving bad advice (as your coach in the commercial gym you mentioned).
Also I never heared that pro female bb or coaches are switching from anavar to oxys... even when it sounds stupid but the goal of good pro coaches or athletes is to keep the feminine style and var is one of the best and softest compounds for that, also many athletes dont even need any compound until they are on a certain level for like bikini girl, esp there ped abuse is the wrong way to be a sucsessful athlete.

There are black sheep yes but they arent sucsessful or healthy at all.
Dont risk your health and your feminine look for not gaining anything.

Get in touch with people who do have knowledge and experience with women in general and esp peds

I agree this is not a recipe. Bioindividuality plays a huge role. Some people have naturally high levels of test others have low. If your natural levels of test are like 3.5mg a week or lower and your feed the equivalent of 7mg of androgen load your chances or virilization are much higher than someone who produces 7mg of test naturally.

I see that 29mg of daily anavar as the threshold for an experienced pro female athlete. I totally agree you should always start at a very low dose and increase, and whenever you get the first collaterals like hair loss and acne you should lower the dosage asap.

About the compounds i mentioned, i just listed almost every anabolic compound sold in driada so people can have a general overview of anabolic:androgen ratios. If you were talking about the use oxymetholone in woman then yes its a bit of mix between bro science and forum reads. But there are reports of woman feeling better on a low dose of oxymetholone like 2.5mg-5mg than with anavar mg for mg. But we would have to enter in the individualities of each compound and bioindividuallity. Because some people will respond good to masteron and bad to primo. Others the opposite. For some women the anti estrogenic properties in masteron could be useful to reduce cellulite while for others the "estrogen like" properties in oxymetholone could help achieve a more feminine figure.

Im not trying to favor oxymethlone over anavar. Anavar is the safest and most studied compound. Provides the best anabolic:androgen ratio within the dht derivates. But then again, this might not be true for everyone.