Expert Answered Looking for feedback on my planned 4th cycle (Test E + Primo + HGH)

[Keiichi]

Hey guys,

I'm turning 40 soon and would appreciate some feedback on my planned cycle for the new year.

A bit about me:

• Age: 39
• Height: 181 cm (5'11")
• Weight: 76 kg (167 lbs)
• Body fat: 11%
• Training experience: 14 years

I recently had bloodwork done and these are my main results:

• Total testosterone: 28.66 nmol/L (826 ng/dL)
• Free testosterone (calculated): 409 pmol/L
• SHBG: 66.3 nmol/L (slightly above the reference range)
• Estradiol (E2): 90 pmol/L
• LH: 4.1 IU/L
• FSH: 3.6 IU/L
• Prolactin: 5.5 µg/L
• Cortisol (8 am): 337 nmol/L

My testosterone and free testosterone are within the reference ranges, although SHBG is slightly elevated.

After a recent retatrutide cycle, I lost quite a bit of both fat and muscle mass. I'd like to regain what I've lost and ideally put on another 3-4kg (or more?) of muscle.

My previous cycles:

I've done three cycles so far:

• Cycle 1 (4.5 years ago): Test E, 250 mg every 5 days, for 14 weeks.
• Cycle 2 (3.5 years ago): Test E, 250 mg every 5 days, for 12 weeks.
• Cycle 3 (last year): Test P + Primo, 300 mg/week of each, split into three injections per week, for 10 weeks.

The first two cycles went reasonably well. However, the third one didn't agree with me at all. I experienced severe night sweats and would regularly wake up drenched. Overall, the doses felt like too much for me, so I'd like to take a more conservative approach this time.

My proposed 4th cycle:

• Test E: 250 mg/week
• Primo E: 100 mg/week
• Duration: 16 weeks
• Injections: Twice weekly, Monday morning and Thursday evening
• HGH: 2 IU daily, taken on an empty stomach in the morning

My main goal is to regain muscle mass and build a bit more size while staying relatively lean. I still have some stubborn fat around my lower abdomen and love handles that I'd like to get rid of as well.

My questions:

1. Does this look like a reasonable, relatively mild approach for a 16-week cycle, considering my age and previous experience?
2. Would you stick with these doses, or would you consider adjusting them slightly upwards?
3. Is adding 100 mg of Primo per week worthwhile at this testosterone dose, or would you approach the cycle differently?
4. What are your thoughts on adding 2 IU of HGH daily? Would it realistically help with muscle gain and stubborn abdominal fat at my current body fat percentage?
5. Given my previous experience with night sweats, are there any particular things I should pay attention to with this setup?

I'm not looking to run an excessively aggressive cycle. I'd rather make steady progress with manageable side effects, especially after how poorly I responded to my last one.

I'd appreciate any input, particularly from those with similar experience or who have run comparable doses.

Thanks in advance!

 

[Davy Tenebrae]

Welcome mate! At 76kg and 11% body fat, I think regaining the muscle you lost on Retatrutide should be your priority. Muscle memory can help quite a bit, and I'd make sure your calories and protein are back where they need to be. Your proposed Test + Primo doses are lower than last time, start the cycle and eventually we'll increase them if necessary. With your previous night sweats I'd want to understand what went wrong first, and what compound do you think caused it? As for HGH, it's very useful for muscle growth and stubborn belly fat, it can definitely improve body composition.

 

[Keiichi]

Thanks for the feedback!

I suspect Test P was the main culprit. When I reduced the dose from 300mg to 225mg per week, the night sweats improved noticeably. That's why I think the overall dose, or possibly the faster-acting ester, didn't agree with me.

I've previously run Test E at 250mg every 5 days without experiencing the same issues, which is another reason why I'm considering switching back to Test E and keeping the overall doses more conservative this time.

And you're right about muscle memory. My main priority is to regain the muscle I lost on Retatrutide before pushing for further gains.

 

[Davy Tenebrae]

The improvement in your night sweats after reducing Test P suggests a dose-related hormonal response rather than an issue with the ester itself. However, hormone fluctuations and injection frequency could also have a role. At your current weight and body fat, I’d aim for a 250 calorie daily surplus with 150g of protein. Muscle memory should help you regain lost muscle without aggressively increasing androgen exposure. Considering your previous experience, Primo at 100mg weekly may provide some additional mild anabolic activity, although the benefit is dose related. HGH can improve body composition by reducing overall fat mass, and its direct muscle-building effects are underrated , but it won’t magically target abdominal fat. I’d monitor blood pressure and estradiol if the night sweats return.
Did you have your E2 checked during your previous cycle?

 

[Keiichi]

Unfortunately, I didn't have my E2 checked during my previous cycle, so I can't say whether elevated estradiol played a role in the night sweats.

 

[Davy Tenebrae]

Unfortunately, I didn't have my E2 checked during my previous cycle, so I can't say whether elevated estradiol played a role in the night sweats.

no problem mate, without an e2 measurement from that cycle we can't confirm whether estradiol contributed to your night sweats. the improvement after reducing testosterone suggests a dose-related response, your current baseline e2 of 90 pmol/l looks reasonable, but it doesn't tell us what happened during your previous cycle. i'd avoid introducing anastrozole without a clear reason and check e2 alongside blood pressure if those symptoms return.

 

[Sam Bjorn]

Hey guys,

I'm turning 40 soon and would appreciate some feedback on my planned cycle for the new year.

A bit about me:

• Age: 39
• Height: 181 cm (5'11")
• Weight: 76 kg (167 lbs)
• Body fat: 11%
• Training experience: 14 years

I recently had bloodwork done and these are my main results:

• Total testosterone: 28.66 nmol/L (826 ng/dL)
• Free testosterone (calculated): 409 pmol/L
• SHBG: 66.3 nmol/L (slightly above the reference range)
• Estradiol (E2): 90 pmol/L
• LH: 4.1 IU/L
• FSH: 3.6 IU/L
• Prolactin: 5.5 µg/L
• Cortisol (8 am): 337 nmol/L

My testosterone and free testosterone are within the reference ranges, although SHBG is slightly elevated.

After a recent retatrutide cycle, I lost quite a bit of both fat and muscle mass. I'd like to regain what I've lost and ideally put on another 3-4kg (or more?) of muscle.

My previous cycles:

I've done three cycles so far:

• Cycle 1 (4.5 years ago): Test E, 250 mg every 5 days, for 14 weeks.
• Cycle 2 (3.5 years ago): Test E, 250 mg every 5 days, for 12 weeks.
• Cycle 3 (last year): Test P + Primo, 300 mg/week of each, split into three injections per week, for 10 weeks.

The first two cycles went reasonably well. However, the third one didn't agree with me at all. I experienced severe night sweats and would regularly wake up drenched. Overall, the doses felt like too much for me, so I'd like to take a more conservative approach this time.

My proposed 4th cycle:

• Test E: 250 mg/week
• Primo E: 100 mg/week
• Duration: 16 weeks
• Injections: Twice weekly, Monday morning and Thursday evening
• HGH: 2 IU daily, taken on an empty stomach in the morning

My main goal is to regain muscle mass and build a bit more size while staying relatively lean. I still have some stubborn fat around my lower abdomen and love handles that I'd like to get rid of as well.

My questions:

1. Does this look like a reasonable, relatively mild approach for a 16-week cycle, considering my age and previous experience?
2. Would you stick with these doses, or would you consider adjusting them slightly upwards?
3. Is adding 100 mg of Primo per week worthwhile at this testosterone dose, or would you approach the cycle differently?
4. What are your thoughts on adding 2 IU of HGH daily? Would it realistically help with muscle gain and stubborn abdominal fat at my current body fat percentage?
5. Given my previous experience with night sweats, are there any particular things I should pay attention to with this setup?

I'm not looking to run an excessively aggressive cycle. I'd rather make steady progress with manageable side effects, especially after how poorly I responded to my last one.

I'd appreciate any input, particularly from those with similar experience or who have run comparable doses.

Thanks in advance!

Hi,

To answer your questions and give you some recommendations, I need a couple of things:

1. A photo of your current physique.
2. A photo from the internet showing the kind of physique you'd like to achieve.

That would be a good starting point before we discuss anything further.

As for your blood tests, if you didn't do them to assess whether you need TRT, and these are simply your results after your previous cycle, they don't really tell us much. All we can say is that you've recovered adequate testosterone levels after your cycle.

But to assess all the risks and make adjustments to your cycle (especially at 40), we'll need other blood tests.

If you're willing to put up with me being this thorough, I'm happy to help you out!))

 

[Keiichi]

@Davy Tenebrae
I actually have one more piece of information that might be relevant.

About 10 weeks after completing my PCT, around mid-March 2026, I had another blood test, and my E2 was 165 pmol/L, which was above the reference range. My latest test from September showed 90 pmol/L, so it has come down quite a bit since then.

@Sam Bjorn
Hey Sam,

Thanks for reaching out!

Regarding the photos, I'll get back to you over the weekend. I'd like to take them in decent natural daylight, so I'll do that when I'm home.

I'm definitely open to doing additional blood tests if needed. Just let me know which markers you'd like to see so we can get a more comprehensive picture before discussing anything further.

Looking forward to your input!

 

[Sam Bjorn]

@Davy Tenebrae
I actually have one more piece of information that might be relevant.

About 10 weeks after completing my PCT, around mid-March 2026, I had another blood test, and my E2 was 165 pmol/L, which was above the reference range. My latest test from September showed 90 pmol/L, so it has come down quite a bit since then.

@Sam Bjorn
Hey Sam,

Thanks for reaching out!

Regarding the photos, I'll get back to you over the weekend. I'd like to take them in decent natural daylight, so I'll do that when I'm home.

I'm definitely open to doing additional blood tests if needed. Just let me know which markers you'd like to see so we can get a more comprehensive picture before discussing anything further.

Looking forward to your input!

Regarding blood tests, I have a model that I’ve developed through practice. I use two types of screening: a minimal and an extended list of tests.

Based on this, I suggest three ways of working with them:

1. Do the minimal list of tests before the cycle and monitor the minimum necessary number of markers during the cycle. It’s budget-friendly and not optimal in terms of risk management, but it’s better than working blindly.
2. Do the extended bloodwork, identify weak points, try to address them (or at least keep them in mind), and then during the cycle do the necessary tests + monitor any markers that were outside the reference ranges. In my opinion, this is the best of the three options.
3. Do the minimal list before the cycle and gradually add the other tests from the extended list to get a broader picture of what’s going on over time. It’s not the optimal option, but it’s still a valid approach.

What the minimal list is for​

The minimal list is the basic set of tests that I recommend doing before starting a cycle. Its purpose isn’t to check absolutely everything, but to rule out the main potential risks and establish baseline values that can later be compared with your bloodwork during and after the cycle.

The main purpose of this screening is to answer three questions:

• Is it safe to start the cycle with your current markers?
• What changed during the cycle?
• Did your body return to its baseline state after the cycle?

That’s why pre-cycle bloodwork isn’t just about checking whether the numbers fall within the laboratory reference ranges. We’re establishing your individual baseline, which later makes it much easier to objectively assess the effects of the cycle and your recovery afterward.

 

[Keiichi]

@Sam Bjorn

Thanks for explaining the different approaches, Sam!

I think I'd actually lean towards option 1 for now. I only had a comprehensive blood panel done a few weeks ago, so the results are still fairly recent. I also shared only the most relevant markers in my original post, not the full set of results.

I'd therefore prefer to use my existing bloodwork as a baseline, do any additional tests from your minimal list that might be missing and then monitor the relevant markers during the cycle.

If you could share your list, I can compare it with my September results and see what's still missing.

 

[Keiichi]

Hey @Sam Bjorn

As promised, here are my current physique pictures and a reference picture of the physique I'd like to achieve.

For some additional context, I lost around 10 kg during my Retatrutide cycle. Despite keeping my protein intake relatively high and continuing to train consistently, I unfortunately lost a noticeable amount of muscle mass as well.

I'm not entirely sure whether the reference physique is realistic for me, but it's definitely the goal I'd like to work towards. Ideally, I'd like to achieve it by the end of my next cycle or, at the latest, after one additional cycle.

I'd appreciate your honest opinion. Looking forward to your feedback!

 

[Keiichi]

and something like this would be my ultimative goal

 

[Sam Bjorn]

@Sam Bjorn

Thanks for explaining the different approaches, Sam!

I think I'd actually lean towards option 1 for now. I only had a comprehensive blood panel done a few weeks ago, so the results are still fairly recent. I also shared only the most relevant markers in my original post, not the full set of results.

I'd therefore prefer to use my existing bloodwork as a baseline, do any additional tests from your minimal list that might be missing and then monitor the relevant markers during the cycle.

If you could share your list, I can compare it with my September results and see what's still missing.

Okay, I understand. It would be easier if you could post screenshots of your blood test results here, so we can refer back to them more easily later in this thread.

 

[Sam Bjorn]

Hey @Sam Bjorn

As promised, here are my current physique pictures and a reference picture of the physique I'd like to achieve.

For some additional context, I lost around 10 kg during my Retatrutide cycle. Despite keeping my protein intake relatively high and continuing to train consistently, I unfortunately lost a noticeable amount of muscle mass as well.

I'm not entirely sure whether the reference physique is realistic for me, but it's definitely the goal I'd like to work towards. Ideally, I'd like to achieve it by the end of my next cycle or, at the latest, after one additional cycle.

I'd appreciate your honest opinion. Looking forward to your feedback!

Thanks for the photos, they helped me understand your situation much better. Based on what you've told me, you do a cycle, then PCT, and then train naturally for a while, correct?

My main question is whether you've been tracking your progress from your very first cycle until now. Can you objectively say that you're retaining more muscle mass after each cycle and not losing everything you've gained during PCT?

Considering how infrequently you do cycles, this is probably the most important thing to look at.

 

[Keiichi]

Okay, I understand. It would be easier if you could post screenshots of your blood test results here, so we can refer back to them more easily later in this thread.

 

[Keiichi]

Thanks for the photos, they helped me understand your situation much better. Based on what you've told me, you do a cycle, then PCT, and then train naturally for a while, correct?

My main question is whether you've been tracking your progress from your very first cycle until now. Can you objectively say that you're retaining more muscle mass after each cycle and not losing everything you've gained during PCT?

Considering how infrequently you do cycles, this is probably the most important thing to look at.

Yes, that's correct. My goal is to do one cycle per year, ideally starting in January and running until April or May, followed by PCT and then training naturally for the rest of the year.

To answer your question: Yes, I would say I've been able to retain roughly 70% of the muscle mass gained during each cycle. So I haven't lost everything after PCT, and I've generally managed to maintain a good portion of my gains.

Some additional background might help explain my current situation:

Before my first cycle, I was already quite lean, but had more of a skinny-fat physique. My first two Test E cycles went reasonably well, and I was able to retain a good portion of the gains.

The third cycle, however, was a different story. As I said before, I tolerated it quite poorly, experienced significant night sweats and, rather than getting leaner, I actually ended up gaining quite a bit of big/fat.

That's also one of the reasons why I decided to run Retatrutide over the past five months. Unfortunately, things went a bit too far in the other direction...