Expert Answered Muscle memory comeback with Test E Primo and HGH 💪🔥

[Sam Bjorn]

Thanks for your feedback! A few comments on your points:

SHBG
My SHBG has actually been slightly elevated for years, although it has gone up a bit further in my latest blood test. I suspect this might be related to the prolonged calorie deficit and the associated physiological stress from my Retatrutide phase, although that's just my assumption.
I also discussed this with an endocrinologist, who wasn't particularly concerned about it and does not know what to do about it.

Lipid Panel
Yes, I was fasting. The blood test was done first thing in the morning, approximately one hour after waking up.
I also discussed these results with my endocrinologist. His view was that some people naturally have higher cholesterol levels due to genetic factors and that my results weren't particularly concerning. However, I appreciate your advice and will look into the possibility of starting a statin. I'll discuss this further with my doctor.

Vitamin B12
Yes, I'm currently taking a Longevity Complex supplement that also contains vitamin B12. That probably explains the elevated B12 level.

SHBG​

As for your SHBG, it's not something critical, at least I don't have enough expertise to say otherwise. If your thyroid hormone levels were abnormal, we might have something more to go on. I'll leave that up to you.

Lipid Panel​

Regarding cholesterol, yes, some people do have naturally elevated LDL-C due to genetic factors. But genetically elevated LDL can actually be particularly significant because you're exposed to higher levels of atherogenic lipoproteins every single day for decades.
Considering you're planning to use steroids, I wouldn't ignore this. Especially since you're 40, not 20...There are cardiovascular risk calculators that cardiologists use to estimate the likelihood of a heart attack, stroke, or other cardiovascular events over the next 10 years. I entered your numbers into an American model designed for people aged 30–79 without known cardiovascular disease. Here's the link: https://professional.heart.org/en/guidelines-and-statements/prevent-calculator

Based on your blood test results (although I didn't include your blood pressure because I haven't asked you about it), your estimated cardiovascular risk over the next 10 years isn't particularly high. But there's one important limitation: the calculator doesn't account for anabolic steroid use, which significantly increases that risk.

Vitamin B12​

Could you send me a screenshot showing the ingredients and dosages in your Longevity Complex? It looks like the dosage might be too high. Are you taking it for any particular reason?

 

[Sam Bjorn]

HGH timing
I'm still a little undecided about whether to take HGH in the morning or before bed.
If I go with morning injections, opinions seem to differ quite a bit regarding how long I should wait before eating. Some recommend injecting fasted and waiting 30–60 minutes before breakfast, while others say the timing doesn't really matter that much.
What's your preferred approach, and why?

HCG
Regarding HCG, I was actually planning to use it only during the two weeks between my last injection and the start of PCT.
I've never used HCG before, and I don't plan on having children. I therefore wasn't planning to introduce it during the entire cycle.
Could you explain why you would recommend starting HCG from the beginning of the cycle? Is your main concern preserving testicular function and volume, or are there other benefits I'm overlooking?

Retatrutide
I'm still undecided about Retatrutide.
If I use it again, I was thinking more along the lines of microdosing towards the end of the cycle, mainly as a way to manage any excess fat gain if needed.
After losing around 10 kg during my previous run, including a noticeable amount of muscle, I definitely don't want to repeat that experience.

My priority this time is building muscle while keeping fat gain under control, rather than actively trying to lose more weight.

What would be your take on this approach?

HGH Timing​

Look, if your goal is fat loss, I'll explain why injecting HGH on an empty stomach might make sense. Growth hormone increases the use of fat as fuel, including your stored body fat. But when you eat, your insulin levels rise, which blocks this process. So you can either inject it in the morning, but then you won't be able to have breakfast straight away, or in the evening, assuming you don't eat a big meal right before bed. From that perspective, injecting HGH in the evening makes sense. Your insulin levels will be low during the night.

​

HCG​

To put it simply, when any function of the body is completely shut down, that's not a natural state for the body. The fewer systems we artificially suppress, the better. Unless, of course, we're talking about certain medical conditions where suppression is necessary.

To be more specific, there are a few things that quite a lot of users notice subjectively. Without HCG, their cycle doesn't feel quite as good in terms of libido, drive, and similar effects. But when they add HCG, things improve. And there are quite a few people who report this.

We don't have solid data explaining why this happens, but I personally know hypothese.

The main one is that levels of certain neurosteroids decrease. HCG mimics LH. LH is responsible not only for testosterone production but also for the production of other hormones, including neurosteroids such as allopregnanolone. Neurosteroids can directly influence neuronal activity by acting on neurotransmitter receptors. The effects of some have been scientifically demonstrated, while others are still only supported by experimental evidence. But let's not get too deep into that...

I actually looked into this just now and found that there's even a study on the subject. In the paper https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1111/cen.14324 researchers compared the steroid hormone profiles of men with congenital hypogonadism receiving different types of hormone therapy. One group received exogenous testosterone, while the other received HCG and FSH.
They found that HCG therapy reproduced the physiological steroid hormone profile more closely than exogenous testosterone. The researchers identified differences in several steroidogenesis pathways. They also suggested that these differences in steroid profiles could potentially affect mood, cognitive function, sleep, and sexual function.

And yes, neurosteroids are also produced within the nervous system itself, not just in the testes. So we don't have definitive proof, but this hypothesis does exist.

I decided to add this steroidogenesis diagram here so we can all have a laugh at how much we "know" about what happens during hormonal changes when we say things like "estradiol lowers/increases libido" and how complicated things actually are in reality

Retatrutide​

Here's what I don't quite understand: do you think your appetite will increase so much while you're trying to build muscle that you'll end up gaining too much fat? You could keep the dosage minimal, but I'd approach it as an experiment, comparing your progress with and without it.

For example, you could start your cycle without stopping retatrutide and monitor your progress for around 6 weeks. Then stop taking it and see how your body responds. That way, you'll be able to judge for yourself whether Reta is actually helping you or, on the contrary, slowing down your progress.

 

[Sam Bjorn]

HGH: 2 IU daily, taken on an empty stomach in the morning

Sorry, I wasn't paying attention there and ended up contradicting myself. Taking HGH in the morning would be difficult because you'd be having breakfast. I just know some crazy guys who used to wake up at 5 AM to inject HGH and then go back to sleep until 9. But I don't think that's a good or convenient approach

 

[Keiichi]

SHBG​

As for your SHBG, it's not something critical, at least I don't have enough expertise to say otherwise. If your thyroid hormone levels were abnormal, we might have something more to go on. I'll leave that up to you.

Lipid Panel​

Regarding cholesterol, yes, some people do have naturally elevated LDL-C due to genetic factors. But genetically elevated LDL can actually be particularly significant because you're exposed to higher levels of atherogenic lipoproteins every single day for decades.
Considering you're planning to use steroids, I wouldn't ignore this. Especially since you're 40, not 20...There are cardiovascular risk calculators that cardiologists use to estimate the likelihood of a heart attack, stroke, or other cardiovascular events over the next 10 years. I entered your numbers into an American model designed for people aged 30–79 without known cardiovascular disease. Here's the link: https://professional.heart.org/en/guidelines-and-statements/prevent-calculator

Based on your blood test results (although I didn't include your blood pressure because I haven't asked you about it), your estimated cardiovascular risk over the next 10 years isn't particularly high. But there's one important limitation: the calculator doesn't account for anabolic steroid use, which significantly increases that risk.

View attachment 7257

Vitamin B12​

Could you send me a screenshot showing the ingredients and dosages in your Longevity Complex? It looks like the dosage might be too high. Are you taking it for any particular reason?

Thanks for taking the time to look into this. I really appreciate your input.

Lipid Panel
I have to admit that I've never really paid much attention to my cholesterol levels before. I always assumed they weren't particularly concerning, especially since my endocrinologist wasn't too worried about them.
However, considering your explanation and the fact that I'm planning further steroid use, I'm genuinely reconsidering this. I'm actually thinking about starting a statin and then monitoring how my lipid values respond.
One question: Would you recommend starting a statin already now, before the next cycle, to get my LDL and non-HDL cholesterol under control beforehand? Or would you approach this differently?

Vitamin B12
I've attached a screenshot showing the ingredients and dosages of my Longevity Complex.
I'm taking it primarily for anti-ageing and longevity purposes, as part of my general supplementation routine. I wasn't specifically targeting B12 deficiency or anything like that. I’m adding a few more supplements throughout the day, including zinc, magnesium, collagen, creatine and omega-3.

 

[Keiichi]

HGH Timing​

Look, if your goal is fat loss, I'll explain why injecting HGH on an empty stomach might make sense. Growth hormone increases the use of fat as fuel, including your stored body fat. But when you eat, your insulin levels rise, which blocks this process. So you can either inject it in the morning, but then you won't be able to have breakfast straight away, or in the evening, assuming you don't eat a big meal right before bed. From that perspective, injecting HGH in the evening makes sense. Your insulin levels will be low during the night.

​

HCG​

To put it simply, when any function of the body is completely shut down, that's not a natural state for the body. The fewer systems we artificially suppress, the better. Unless, of course, we're talking about certain medical conditions where suppression is necessary.

To be more specific, there are a few things that quite a lot of users notice subjectively. Without HCG, their cycle doesn't feel quite as good in terms of libido, drive, and similar effects. But when they add HCG, things improve. And there are quite a few people who report this.

We don't have solid data explaining why this happens, but I personally know hypothese.

The main one is that levels of certain neurosteroids decrease. HCG mimics LH. LH is responsible not only for testosterone production but also for the production of other hormones, including neurosteroids such as allopregnanolone. Neurosteroids can directly influence neuronal activity by acting on neurotransmitter receptors. The effects of some have been scientifically demonstrated, while others are still only supported by experimental evidence. But let's not get too deep into that...

I actually looked into this just now and found that there's even a study on the subject. In the paper https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1111/cen.14324 researchers compared the steroid hormone profiles of men with congenital hypogonadism receiving different types of hormone therapy. One group received exogenous testosterone, while the other received HCG and FSH.
They found that HCG therapy reproduced the physiological steroid hormone profile more closely than exogenous testosterone. The researchers identified differences in several steroidogenesis pathways. They also suggested that these differences in steroid profiles could potentially affect mood, cognitive function, sleep, and sexual function.

And yes, neurosteroids are also produced within the nervous system itself, not just in the testes. So we don't have definitive proof, but this hypothesis does exist.

View attachment 7258

I decided to add this steroidogenesis diagram here so we can all have a laugh at how much we "know" about what happens during hormonal changes when we say things like "estradiol lowers/increases libido" and how complicated things actually are in reality

Retatrutide​

Here's what I don't quite understand: do you think your appetite will increase so much while you're trying to build muscle that you'll end up gaining too much fat? You could keep the dosage minimal, but I'd approach it as an experiment, comparing your progress with and without it.

For example, you could start your cycle without stopping retatrutide and monitor your progress for around 6 weeks. Then stop taking it and see how your body responds. That way, you'll be able to judge for yourself whether Reta is actually helping you or, on the contrary, slowing down your progress.

Thanks for the explanation, Sam!

I'm still a little undecided about the timing, though.

My initial thought was to inject HGH in the morning, mainly because I assumed it could provide an additional stimulus alongside the body's natural GH release during sleep.

What I'm particularly unsure about is how long I should wait before having breakfast. Would 60–90 minutes be sufficient, or is there a specific reason to wait even longer?

Evening injections are also an option, but I usually have dinner around 2–3 hours before going to bed. If I use Retatrutide again, I'm a little concerned that delayed gastric emptying could make the timing less predictable.

Given these circumstances, would you personally favour morning or evening administration?

 

[Davy Tenebrae]

Sorry, I wasn't paying attention there and ended up contradicting myself. Taking HGH in the morning would be difficult because you'd be having breakfast. I just know some crazy guys who used to wake up at 5 AM to inject HGH and then go back to sleep until 9. But I don't think that's a good or convenient approach

i did that once i my life, never again i went to sleep and had a horrible rest, woke up tried to do cardio for 40 mins and nope my body just said "man i want to lay down"