Expert Answered First AAS cycle after 2 sarm cycles. 600mg test e + turi, looking for feedback

[cooling]

so a bit of background, i’ve run two sarm cycles before this. first one was 10mg rad140 + 20mg cardarine for 8 weeks, results were okay but i think i undersold myself on nutrition so gains were mild. second cycle i stepped it up to 20mg rad + 5mg lgd + 20mg cardarine, ran it for 75 days and honestly it was a completely different experience. solid lean mass, veins popping, people around me noticing changes. sides were basically nothing — mild libido dip toward the end, nothing that killed my quality of life. pct with enclomiphene both times and bounced back fast.

now im done with the kiddie pool and ready to make the jump.

planned cycle:
test e 600mg/week (300mg monday/thursday) — 16 weeks
hcg 200iu twice weekly — 16 weeks
anastrozole 0.5mg eod — throughout, adjust if needed
turinabol 50mg daily — weeks 5-16
tadalafil 5mg daily — cardiovascular support
raloxifene on hand — gyno emergency backup
pct — enclomiphene 25mg weeks 1-2, 12.5mg weeks 3-6, starting 2 weeks after last pin

goals: lean mass with some recomp. sitting around 18-20% bf at 83-86kg, 185cm. want to come out leaner and significantly more muscular. not chasing scale weight, chasing body composition.

have minor beta thalassemia and allergy induced asthma, both mild and never affected training. train 4-5x per week plus table tennis 3-4x weekly so activity level is high.

bloodwork before, mid cycle, and post pct. supplements sorted, tudca, nac, omega 3, the full stack.

any feedback on the cycle welcome, especially on the turi timing and whether 16 weeks is too ambitious for a first test cycle.

 

[Sam Bjorn]

Hi and welcome to the community.

Thanks for describing your experience.

1. It would be useful if you could send a current photo of your physique, or at least a photo of your best condition during the cycle.
2. You mentioned doing PCT — did you have bloodwork done after PCT to understand how well you recovered?
3. I also need to know your age.

As for the cycle — based on what you’ve already written, I would recommend not using several compounds on your first cycle. There isn’t much point. It would be better to use only testosterone and start with 250 mg per week. That would already be a more serious cycle than your two previous SARM cycles.

I would do it like this:
- Test E 250 mg/week (125 mg Monday/Thursday)
- HCG 250 IU 2-3 times weekly
- Anastrozole 0.5 mg — only if it’s actually needed, so just buy it and keep it on hand
- Turinabol — save it for the next cycle
- Tadalafil 5 mg daily — yes, but it depends on your age. If you’re under 30, there may not be a strong need for it. I’d rather look at your blood pressure and keep an eye on blood rheology and lipids
- Raloxifene on hand — not need at all

 

[cooling]

took a lot of damn nerve to take this picture, i don't ever take photos of my physique. but here it is, most muscular. still carrying fat but you can kinda see the muscle underneath.



went through bloodwork with my house doctor after pct, everything looked fine. slightly low iron but that's just the thalassemia doing its thing, nothing new.

one thing i'm curious about though, why hold off on the turinabol? i was thinking weeks 5 onwards as a finisher, dry lean mass on top of the test. what's the actual reason to wait, just isolating variables or something else?

 

[Sam Bjorn]

took a lot of damn nerve to take this picture, i don't ever take photos of my physique. but here it is, most muscular. still carrying fat but you can kinda see the muscle underneath.

View attachment 7004

went through bloodwork with my house doctor after pct, everything looked fine. slightly low iron but that's just the thalassemia doing its thing, nothing new.

one thing i'm curious about though, why hold off on the turinabol? i was thinking weeks 5 onwards as a finisher, dry lean mass on top of the test. what's the actual reason to wait, just isolating variables or something else?

I’d like to pay more attention to your medical condition now. What about your red blood cell tests? Hb, Hct, RBC, MCV, MCH, RDW

You mentioned slightly low serum iron levels? I’d look at this more broadly because your condition and iron deficiency are two different things. But to check whether you actually have an iron deficiency, I’d need to see your blood test results.

The reason why you shouldn’t add several compounds to your first cycle when you don’t know how your body responds to them is the same as trying alcohol for the first time and then smoking some weed on top of it. Your parents end up finding you the next morning asleep under a bench near your house, and you’ll never know exactly what caused it.

The only compromise I see for a first cycle in some cases is adding a low dose of Primo to testosterone to lower estradiol and avoid taking aromatase inhibitors.

But to be honest, I was too quick to start discussing a cycle at all. We should thoroughly review your bloodwork first. Does your doctor know that you use steroids?

 

[cooling]

I’d like to pay more attention to your medical condition now. What about your red blood cell tests? Hb, Hct, RBC, MCV, MCH, RDW

You mentioned slightly low serum iron levels? I’d look at this more broadly because your condition and iron deficiency are two different things. But to check whether you actually have an iron deficiency, I’d need to see your blood test results.

The reason why you shouldn’t add several compounds to your first cycle when you don’t know how your body responds to them is the same as trying alcohol for the first time and then smoking some weed on top of it. Your parents end up finding you the next morning asleep under a bench near your house, and you’ll never know exactly what caused it.

The only compromise I see for a first cycle in some cases is adding a low dose of Primo to testosterone to lower estradiol and avoid taking aromatase inhibitors.

But to be honest, I was too quick to start discussing a cycle at all. We should thoroughly review your bloodwork first. Does your doctor know that you use steroids?

the iron thing is just what my doctor told me, slightly low, nothing serious flagged beyond what the thalassemia explains.

my doctor knows i use performance enhancing compounds, we've discussed it. he's not thrilled about it but he monitors me and we review bloodwork together.

the alcohol and weed analogy actually makes sense, i won't argue with that.

to answer your specific questions on the blood values:

Hb — 12.7 g/dL (below normal, range 14-18)
Hct — 40.1% (within range but borderline low, range 41-51)
RBC — 6.64 (above upper normal of 5.7)
MCV — 60.4 fL (below normal)
MCH — 19.1 pg (below normal, range 26-34)
RDW — 18.0% (above normal, range 11.3-14.8)

serum iron, ferritin, transferrin saturation were not tested for. doctor mentioned slightly low iron verbally but no values on this panel.

what specifically are you looking at in the bloodwork that concerns you regarding the cycle? i'd rather understand what you're seeing before we go further.

btw, do you have a response for my physique?

 

[Sam Bjorn]

the iron thing is just what my doctor told me, slightly low, nothing serious flagged beyond what the thalassemia explains.

my doctor knows i use performance enhancing compounds, we've discussed it. he's not thrilled about it but he monitors me and we review bloodwork together.

the alcohol and weed analogy actually makes sense, i won't argue with that.

to answer your specific questions on the blood values:

Hb — 12.7 g/dL (below normal, range 14-18)
Hct — 40.1% (within range but borderline low, range 41-51)
RBC — 6.64 (above upper normal of 5.7)
MCV — 60.4 fL (below normal)
MCH — 19.1 pg (below normal, range 26-34)
RDW — 18.0% (above normal, range 11.3-14.8)

serum iron, ferritin, transferrin saturation were not tested for. doctor mentioned slightly low iron verbally but no values on this panel.

what specifically are you looking at in the bloodwork that concerns you regarding the cycle? i'd rather understand what you're seeing before we go further.

btw, do you have a response for my physique?

I'd focus your attention right now not on a specific blood test, but on your approach. You're the only one responsible for your own life, so you should know everything that's going on in your blood. You should have access to all your blood test results at any time and understand how any supplements or drugs can affect or have already affected your levels. And if your doctor says something is slightly low, you should see it with your own eyes.

If something is slightly below or above the normal range, that's already a reason to look into it further. Yes, serum iron can be either high or low, and it might be nothing serious at all, which can be clarified by repeating the test. But if that test was done, there must have been a reason for it. What's the point of getting blood tests if you don't pay attention to the results or do any further research?

Considering that your condition itself involves changes in hemoglobin production, iron deficiency is definitely not something that will help your cycle. Before starting a cycle, you should get a proper checkup and identify any potential weak points. You can't protect yourself against everything, but you can at least identify obvious problems if there are any.

Please share whatever blood test results you have here so we don't have to play Chinese whispers. That way, I can assess the overall picture, see which additional tests might be worth doing, and point out more specifically what you should pay attention to.

And yes, if your doctor is helping you, that's great But if you want me to give you any recommendations, I need to see your blood test results, that's the first thing. And second, I need to know that you understand what's going on and what we're going to do.

 

[Sam Bjorn]

btw, do you have a response for my physique?

Let's put it this way: you could clearly still make progress naturally, but you've already built a solid enough foundation to start experimenting with PEDs.

 

[cooling]

i understand your concerns and respect them a ton. you are a stranger, willing to help me with my first aas cycle, to make sure i stay safe. ive dealt with my thalassemia all my life and its never been a problem. i am ready and know the risks of these drugs, ive taken sarms before, not sure if its anywhere comparable with the experience you get with aas.

i just need your advice on what to take.

the problem with where i live, switzerland, is that you need real medical reasons to get bloodwork, otherwise you pay out of pocket and in my clinic it goes for upwards of 370CHF which is about 450$. its not that i wont do a blood test mid cycle, i know its mandatory, im just not really ready to do one before cycle due to financial reasons.

with what ive told you and how youve responded, i feel like youre asking yourself questions about if youre willing to help or not. either way, i appreciate you to the fullest sam, if you help or dont

 

[Sam Bjorn]

i understand your concerns and respect them a ton. you are a stranger, willing to help me with my first aas cycle, to make sure i stay safe. ive dealt with my thalassemia all my life and its never been a problem. i am ready and know the risks of these drugs, ive taken sarms before, not sure if its anywhere comparable with the experience you get with aas.

i just need your advice on what to take.

the problem with where i live, switzerland, is that you need real medical reasons to get bloodwork, otherwise you pay out of pocket and in my clinic it goes for upwards of 370CHF which is about 450$. its not that i wont do a blood test mid cycle, i know its mandatory, im just not really ready to do one before cycle due to financial reasons.

with what ive told you and how youve responded, i feel like youre asking yourself questions about if youre willing to help or not. either way, i appreciate you to the fullest sam, if you help or dont

Look bro, the thing is, if we overlook something, it could lead to problems we didn't expect. And you're right — I am asking myself that question because I don't want to give recommendations when I have very little information.

I'll put it this way — we're not doctors, and any advice you get here is just information for you to think about and analyze yourself. It should never sound like "go ahead bro, we know exactly what you need to do."

What I'm trying to say is, if you can't afford regular checkups, it's worth asking yourself whether you have enough information to start taking something that might require even more frequent blood tests.

450 dollars is a little over 400 euros. How many tests are included in that price? I don't know how healthcare works in Switzerland, but isn't it possible to get specific blood tests done separately and pay less? Maybe find another clinic or ask how bodybuilders in your country deal with this?

And if you add up all the PEDs you wanted to buy, the total isn't small either. If we compare your original list with the changes I suggested, you'll already save some money.

• Test E 600 mg/week — I changed it to 250 mg per week.
• Turinabol 50 mg daily — I removed it completely.
• Tadalafil 5 mg daily — you can also do without it.
• Raloxifene on hand — removed.

 

[cooling]

Look bro, the thing is, if we overlook something, it could lead to problems we didn't expect. And you're right — I am asking myself that question because I don't want to give recommendations when I have very little information.

I'll put it this way — we're not doctors, and any advice you get here is just information for you to think about and analyze yourself. It should never sound like "go ahead bro, we know exactly what you need to do."

What I'm trying to say is, if you can't afford regular checkups, it's worth asking yourself whether you have enough information to start taking something that might require even more frequent blood tests.

450 dollars is a little over 400 euros. How many tests are included in that price? I don't know how healthcare works in Switzerland, but isn't it possible to get specific blood tests done separately and pay less? Maybe find another clinic or ask how bodybuilders in your country deal with this?

And if you add up all the PEDs you wanted to buy, the total isn't small either. If we compare your original list with the changes I suggested, you'll already save some money.

• Test E 600 mg/week — I changed it to 250 mg per week.
• Turinabol 50 mg daily — I removed it completely.
• Tadalafil 5 mg daily — you can also do without it.
• Raloxifene on hand — removed.

i found a clinic fitting to what i want. they test the following biomarkers

• Testosterone (total and free)
• SHBG
• Albumin
• DHEA-S
• FSH
• LH
• Prolactin
• TSH

I could asks local bodybuilders what clinics they go to if the one i found is lacking what i need.

I dont really want you to treat me much differently to other users on this site. i know and fully understand why, in my opinion, youre taking this differently, i do have minor beta thalassemia and acknowledge that might be something to have on the radar, but its never effected me in my day to day life. blood tests through out my life have always come back good, except of course what concerns the thalassemia, which is minor to mild. the symptoms commonly asosiated with minor beta thalassemia are sleepiness and low energy and regarding the fact that i have a very active lifestyle, i never feel like im lacking energy. my condition is probably something youre not familiar with and thats okay.

in the end, im not gonna blast until i one day fall over and die. i do want to somewhat ignore my condition, but not be completely negligent towards it.

regarding compounds:

250mg Test E (125mg monday/thursday) 16 Weeks
250IU HCG (250mg monday, thursday) 16 Weeks
125mg Primo Injectable (62.5mg monday/thursday) 16 Weeks (does this count as low dosage to testosterone?)

are there alternatives to primobolan that have the same effect of suppressing E2 aromatization?