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PIP (Post Injection Pain): What It Is, Why It Sucks, and How to Handle It Like a Champ

Anybody knows what the maximum recommended volumes are for each individual injection site per week?
Honestly, from my perspective, never more than 2ml in the large muscles and never more than 1ml in the small muscles.

And leave at least 3-4 days before re-injecting the same area (I still prefer to let it rest for a week.)

Also listen to your body, if you see that 1ml gives too much pip or inflammation, inject less the next time and the rest elsewhere. Small volumes, injected frequently in the most possible spot
 
Anybody knows what the maximum recommended volumes are for each individual injection site per week?
I would say that my experience is on CC (intentionally omitting the compound, remember is not the same neither with esters nor with suspension vs oil for example)

- Deltoid 2
- Traps 1
- Bycep 2
- trycep 2
- Lats 4
- ventroglute 5
- Glutes 5
- quad, pec and calves NEVER! (Unnecessary hurts)
 
Anybody knows what the maximum recommended volumes are for each individual injection site per week?
It depends on the specific compound you're using, its half-life, and how well your body tolerates different injection volumes. As we mentioned earlier, the injection site also plays an important role.
 
It depends on the specific compound you're using, its half-life, and how well your body tolerates different injection volumes. As we mentioned earlier, the injection site also plays an important role.
The carrier oil (more specifically, its viscosity and the solvents in it) also dictate how fast the injection depot dissipates. Castor oil takes the longest, synthetic oils (which Driada thankfully doesn't use) are the quickest.
 
The carrier oil (more specifically, its viscosity and the solvents in it) also dictate how fast the injection depot dissipates. Castor oil takes the longest, synthetic oils (which Driada thankfully doesn't use) are the quickest.
Yes, absolutely — that’s also an important factor. But what I meant is that the compound might not even be oil-based, like in the case of peptide hormones.
 
Our carrier oil list:

Boldelad
(Boldenone Undecylenate) – Sesame oil
Dihydroboldos (Dihydroboldenone Cypionate) – MCT+ Grape seed oil
Drostargos (Drostanolone Enanthate) – Sesame oil
Mastelad (Drostanolone Propionate) – Sesame oil
Primos (Methenolone Enanthate) – Sesame oil + MCT
Nandecos (Nandrolone Decanoate) – Sesame oil
Nanphenylos (Nandrolone Phenylpropionate) – Sesame oil
Hexos (Trenbolone Hexahydrobenzylcarbonate) – Sesame oil
Sustalad – Sesame oil + MCT
Cypilos (Testosterone Cypionate) – Sesame oil
Testos (Testosterone Enanthate) – Grape seed oil + MCT
Propios (Testosterone Propionate) – Sesame oil
Andriolos (Testosterone Undecanoate) – Sesame oil
Trenacetos (Trenbolone Acetate) – Sesame oil
Trenentos (Trenbolone Enanthate) – Sesame oil
Tremilad (Trenbolone Mix) – Sesame oil
Mentolad (Trestolone acetate) – Sesame oil
Stakos – Sesame oil + MCT
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Thank you for sharing this info. It’s very interesting.

How was the different carrier oils chosen for each compound?
For example. Why was different carrier oils chosen for Test E vs. Test C?
Cypilos (Testosterone Cypionate) – Sesame oil
Testos (Testosterone Enanthate) – Grape seed oil + MCT
 
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Thank you for sharing this info. It’s very interesting.

How was the different carrier oils chosen for each compound?
For example. Why was different carrier oils chosen for Test E vs. Test C?
Cypilos (Testosterone Cypionate) – Sesame oil
Testos (Testosterone Enanthate) – Grape seed oil + MCT
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Melting rate of raw / temperature-sensitive oils.

Some do not support an oil, therefore two different oils for two different audiences (the half-life of both are pretty similar)

Adding MTC also makes the solution more fluid.
 
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Thank you for sharing this info. It’s very interesting.

How was the different carrier oils chosen for each compound?
For example. Why was different carrier oils chosen for Test E vs. Test C?
Cypilos (Testosterone Cypionate) – Sesame oil
Testos (Testosterone Enanthate) – Grape seed oil + MCT
×
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Thanks for your question mate!

For complementing @SalvatoreCorvus answer…

Is not a simple question to answer since this is the MAGIC of the EXPERIENCE of the lab… namely, quality and know-how…

However… as a general rule of thumb is a mix of decisions:

1. Viscosity: “How thick that gear is”, no all raw compounds disolved the same during compound prep, since molecularly they differ in structure, so you choose based on final results (Trial prep and lab testing)
  • If it’s too thick, it’s gonna feel like injecting peanut butter. Painful AF.
  • Thinner oils (like MCT or EO) = smoother injects, easier to push through a smaller gauge (like 25g).
  • Thicker ones (like castor or sesame) = harder to push and might leave a lump.

2. Sterility and Filtering – “Will this oil fill and stay, or move with body’s natural flow?”**
  • The oil must be able to handle sterile filtering (0.22 micron) without turning into a nightmare.
  • Some oils clog filters or break down with heat, which is a recipe for abscesses or infections.
  • Human-grade prep = clean, filtered, bacteriostatic = no ER visits hahaha
3. Solubility – “Can this oil itself dissolve the gear?”
  • Not all hormones dissolve well in every oil.
  • Some compounds (mostly those NOT in portfolio like Superdrol or Anadrol injectable) need solvents like EO or Guaiacol just to stay in solution.
  • If your gear crashes (i.e., crystallizes), is it reconstitutable by domestic heat sources?
4. Allergenicity – “how overall consumer immune system reacts?”
  • Some people get reactions from certain oils.
  • Cottonseed and peanut oil are no-go for people with allergies (for example)
  • MCT is one of the cleanest in terms of low reactivity = often the go-to.
5. Injection Site Tolerance – “Is your delt gonna explode?”
  • Some oils cause post-injection pain (PIP) more than others.
  • For example, Ethyl oleate (EO) is great for high-concentration gear but can cause mad swelling for sensitive bros
6. Shelf Stability – “How long can this sit in your drawer?”

  • Oils need to be stable over time – not go rancid, separate, or oxidize.
  • Grapeseed oil goes bad faster than MCT or GSO (Grape Seed Oil) with heat/light. (KEEP YOUR GEAR SAFE 😎)
  • Always store cool, dark, tight-sealed. Like @SalvatoreCorvus secrets hahaha


7. Absorption Rate – “How fast does your body takes to completely consume and metabolize it up?”
  • Thinner oils usually = quicker absorption.
  • Slower oils like sesame or castor can cause lingering soreness or depot buildup.
  • Fast in, fast gains? Well, depends too
So, if you choose among all those, then you have the partly know how to select and homebrew you own gear…

Some people thinks is just buy and do… but, well, here are some tricks of the trade
 
Slower oils like sesame or castor can cause lingering soreness or depot buildup.
×
Apparently castor oil drastically prolongs the half life of a drug (since the injection depot releases the drug much slower into the system), how comparable is the sesame oil in this regard? A client and friend of mine is going on holidays soon and we plan on administering some testosterone undecanoate (from Driada ofc) just before he leaves, what half life should we assume, since the listed half lives for test U vary greatly?
 
Apparently castor oil drastically prolongs the half life of a drug (since the injection depot releases the drug much slower into the system), how comparable is the sesame oil in this regard? A client and friend of mine is going on holidays soon and we plan on administering some testosterone undecanoate (from Driada ofc) just before he leaves, what half life should we assume, since the listed half lives for test U vary greatly?
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That is not dependant only on oil, but in how you own body transport and metabolizes it.

If you eat a chicken breast with olive oil and next day eat KFC

Both have fat, big your could take them differently right? Well, switch your stomach by a complete body absorption system and works the same.

So hard to give any details on that precision without been splitting hairs here
 
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Thanks for your question mate!

For complementing @SalvatoreCorvus answer…

Is not a simple question to answer since this is the MAGIC of the EXPERIENCE of the lab… namely, quality and know-how…

However… as a general rule of thumb is a mix of decisions:

1. Viscosity: “How thick that gear is”, no all raw compounds disolved the same during compound prep, since molecularly they differ in structure, so you choose based on final results (Trial prep and lab testing)
  • If it’s too thick, it’s gonna feel like injecting peanut butter. Painful AF.
  • Thinner oils (like MCT or EO) = smoother injects, easier to push through a smaller gauge (like 25g).
  • Thicker ones (like castor or sesame) = harder to push and might leave a lump.

2. Sterility and Filtering – “Will this oil fill and stay, or move with body’s natural flow?”**
  • The oil must be able to handle sterile filtering (0.22 micron) without turning into a nightmare.
  • Some oils clog filters or break down with heat, which is a recipe for abscesses or infections.
  • Human-grade prep = clean, filtered, bacteriostatic = no ER visits hahaha
3. Solubility – “Can this oil itself dissolve the gear?”
  • Not all hormones dissolve well in every oil.
  • Some compounds (mostly those NOT in portfolio like Superdrol or Anadrol injectable) need solvents like EO or Guaiacol just to stay in solution.
  • If your gear crashes (i.e., crystallizes), is it reconstitutable by domestic heat sources?
4. Allergenicity – “how overall consumer immune system reacts?”
  • Some people get reactions from certain oils.
  • Cottonseed and peanut oil are no-go for people with allergies (for example)
  • MCT is one of the cleanest in terms of low reactivity = often the go-to.
5. Injection Site Tolerance – “Is your delt gonna explode?”
  • Some oils cause post-injection pain (PIP) more than others.
  • For example, Ethyl oleate (EO) is great for high-concentration gear but can cause mad swelling for sensitive bros
6. Shelf Stability – “How long can this sit in your drawer?”

  • Oils need to be stable over time – not go rancid, separate, or oxidize.
  • Grapeseed oil goes bad faster than MCT or GSO (Grape Seed Oil) with heat/light. (KEEP YOUR GEAR SAFE 😎)
  • Always store cool, dark, tight-sealed. Like @SalvatoreCorvus secrets hahaha


7. Absorption Rate – “How fast does your body takes to completely consume and metabolize it up?”
  • Thinner oils usually = quicker absorption.
  • Slower oils like sesame or castor can cause lingering soreness or depot buildup.
  • Fast in, fast gains? Well, depends too
So, if you choose among all those, then you have the partly know how to select and homebrew you own gear…

Some people thinks is just buy and do… but, well, here are some tricks of the trade
×
▼ Click to expand
Thank you for an absolutely great and deep answer.

How do you guys store the opened vials besides keeping them in a dark tempered environment?
Ive seen a handy small plastic case padded with foam holding 2-4 vials. But i have not been able to find the one i saw..
 
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Thank you for an absolutely great and deep answer.

How do you guys store the opened vials besides keeping them in a dark tempered environment?
Ive seen a handy small plastic case padded with foam holding 2-4 vials. But i have not been able to find the one i saw..
×
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On Amazon you might be able to find some boxes that can contain essential oils.

Otherwise, keep it simple. In a Tupperware, in a cupboard or wherever you want 😁. Not in the fridge, not in the oven and everything will be fine.
 
Anybody knows what the maximum recommended volumes are for each individual injection site per week?
There is no exact rule... It will depend on how big your muscle is.

But generally, up to 5ml for the gluteus, 3ml for medium muscles like the quadriceps, shoulder... And 2ml for small muscles like biceps, triceps, calf....

But if you want to be on the safe side and avoid any pain... Add 1 ml to everything mentioned earlier and that way you'll be sure.

I use the G23 (0.6x25mm) for all IM injections, and you can also put up to 3ml in it. I never inject more than 3ml into any muscle. (I've injected 5ml in the gluteus without any problem, but that was years ago...)

And for Subcutaneous use G29 (0.3 x 12mm) or G30 (0.3 x 8mm), whichever one the pharmacy has.
 
I use the G23 (0.6x25mm) for all IM injections
It hurt me to even read this. I cannot understand why are some people opposed to using insulin needles (29 or 30G) fo intramuscular injections too. It produces less scar tissue and irritates the muscle less. The only downside is you have to inject a bit longer, but that irritates the muscle less, so it's a hidden benefit.
 
Me dolio incluso leer esto. No entiendo por qué algunas personas se oponen a usar agujas de insulina (29 o 30G) para inyecciones intramusculares. Produce menos tejido cicatricial e irrita menos el músculo. La única desventaja es que hay que inyectar un poco más de tiempo, pero eso irrita menos el músculo, así que es un beneficio oculto.
It also hurts me to read such closed opinions without a more detailed explanation.... I don't think anyone has the absolute truth, especially in something that has so many variables....

But to claim that 30G is the best for all IMs?? In a glute and others, in my opinion, it is absolutely not the most correct. G23, or even G25.... But if that's not the case with the %BF and you don't give it exactly 90º... Bad.

I don't use 12mm insulin needles for IM for various reasons (there are many people, both bodybuilders and non-bodybuilders, who don't use them and won't use them). You can also ask doctors for their opinions to see their response; some will tell you different things about muscle injuries between using a 0.3/0.4 and a 0.6.... It's almost negligible versus the risk of abscesses from not reaching IM and getting stuck halfway. And if you are one of those who pinch the skin fold before injecting... It falls short by 12mm from the G30.

Loading 3/5ml through that needle at room temperature. normal, it can take you a good while.....And if you use several multi-dose vials with a thick rubber stopper, that needle tip dulls more easily because it's not designed for that. You will have to use needles and syringes separately, the G23 is for PAEDIATRIC use, I think for a big and strong man it won't hurt and you won't shed tears....

My reasons for using 23G:

1- In the 90s, there were no tutorials or forums on AAS, on how to administer the injections yourself, you would go to an "ATS practitioner," a nurse who would inject you and you paid for it.... There was no Internet at home, only a few used it through a modem, at 56Kbps over the phone's analogue line... A photo would take 5 minutes to download. And there was no information about this online.

1-My glutes, which are my favourite spot, don't always have a BF%7.... Not everyone who uses substances always has low BF, especially in that area. And in that area, you don't always inject at a 90º angle, which can be a problem and not reach the muscle with a 12mm needle. This 25mm needle allows me to use more comfortable angles for self-administration, without the risk of it being halfway between IM and SubC, causing lumps, abscesses...

2-I prefer using 25mm for the gluteus, which allows me to use angles of 50/60º, because for me, with my reduced flexibility due to my 51 years of age, it is not easy to self-administer in that area without a mirror or the help of another person. Additionally, the degrees of administration vary depending on the person's morphology and the area; with a 12mm needle at 50º, you can go just right, I don't need to push all the way to insert because there's more margin...

3-I'm old school, and it was unthinkable to use such a fine needle before. In the 90s, we used pharmacy-grade olive and peanut oils, then that ended, and in the 2000s, we used lab-grade ones. veterinarians (the oil was thick and painful, who knows what it was.... But there was nothing else to buy), then they also controlled the sale of veterinary products and the Lab appeared. Under South Americans from Venezuela, Mexico, Brazil... There were no other options... And the oily bases were dense and the substances, who knows where they came from.

4- We would shoot up in secret at home, or in the gym bathrooms. Using ASS and shooting up was very frowned upon back then; it was the era when shooting up was equivalent to being a junkie in Europe, thanks to heroin.... We did it in secret and quickly...

Now everyone knows that most of the big guys use AAS, and they even see their idols on TikTok and like that people know they use AAS.

Before, even drinking a protein shake or taking supplements was like doping with something that would kill you, that's how most people saw it.... Hydroxycut contained ephedrine, remember the Musclemag magazines, where their ads featured Celltech, Hydroxycut, and others, with photos of Lee Priest, or Sombaty, with pictures of before (Him in Bulk) and after taking these supplements (Before the competition). Celltech was 75% sugar and the rest creatine at a price of $60 for 100g.... What times, we were deceived by advertising and didn't have discussion forums :) :) :) **

5- with this needle, I don't need to heat the product, at home temperature, between 18/25º depending on the time of year, you take the vial from the cabinet and it's enough to load and inject comfortably and quickly, I don't have to take 15 minutes. in the loading process...

6- People are creatures of habit... And after 25 years, I no longer need to change, especially not to administer once or twice a week. Maybe for lifelong TRT and injecting 0.20ml of Testo with coconut oil and MCT every other day, I would do it...

As I said, let everyone publish their opinions and experiences, and value those of others even if they don't fully agree, especially when they are not "crazy." Because I wonder about the G18 or G19. Why were they designed back in the day? To cause harm and lesions, so you inject SYNTHOL....

Greetings.
 
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I always use 29g 13mm.

It doesn't matter what area of the body it is.

This is a rather recent practice that stems from the use of steroids

People who use 21g or 23g are "old school" but it's also because it is still widely used in medicine. For punctual injections.

This is where 27g and less are interesting. We inject more often than a 21g vaccine
 
I see it as perfect if it works well for you, it's a coherent response... But generalising that G25 is pointless pain, without considering the application area/thick skin type/BF%..... I think it's not the most appropriate if it's not justified.

Would you use G29 if you had thick skin, with a BF of 15%, in a glute to inject 400mg of pharmacy-grade PRIMOBOLAM, which contains 100mg of metenolone enanthate per 1ml injectable solution? The other components are: benzyl benzoate and castor oil.


I think the most important thing is what "Donvitosharkone" mentioned.

The G25/29/30 needle is a personal choice and should be based on the characteristics of the product and the person. Not all of us are 7%BF and can always use DRIADA Coco+MTC oil:):)


 
It also hurts me to read such closed opinions without a more detailed explanation....
What further explanation would there need to be? I wrote every reason to use 30G in the original post. Smaller needle = less pain, less scar tissue, less PIP but longer time drawing and injecting (which is a worthy tradeoff). It might've sounded like I implied to always use small needles, but realistically, the cases where you shouldn't use them are edge cases and are far outnumbered by the cases where you should use them.
I don't use 12mm insulin needles for IM for various reasons (there are many people, both bodybuilders and non-bodybuilders, who don't use them and won't use them).
You are trying to rationalise using a worse solution that is applicable in very few edge cases, because... other people said so? That is a bandwagon fallacy.
You can also ask doctors for their opinions to see their response; some will tell you different things about muscle injuries between using a 0.3/0.4 and a 0.6.... It's almost negligible versus the risk of abscesses from not reaching IM and getting stuck halfway.
Great, thanks for the input, I live with a surgeon and the only other doctor I listen to is dr. Todd Lee, who is also a biochemist and an IFBB pro. And he uses exclusively insulin srynges.
And if you are one of those who pinch the skin fold before injecting... It falls short by 12mm from the G30.
So if you use the wrong technique for injecting, you need more painful needles? Great.
1- In the 90s, there were no tutorials or forums on AAS, on how to administer the injections yourself, you would go to an "ATS practitioner," a nurse who would inject you and you paid for it.... There was no Internet at home, only a few used it through a modem, at 56Kbps over the phone's analogue line... A photo would take 5 minutes to download. And there was no information about this online.
Amazing, welcome to 2025. We have progressed in the meantime and know things better.
1-My glutes, which are my favourite spot, don't always have a BF%7.... Not everyone who uses substances always has low BF, especially in that area. And in that area, you don't always inject at a 90º angle, which can be a problem and not reach the muscle with a 12mm needle. This 25mm needle allows me to use more comfortable angles for self-administration, without the risk of it being halfway between IM and SubC, causing lumps, abscesses...
This is the only valid reason I see for using 23G. My original comment was half joking, because I don't pin glutes and forgot that you need a longer needle.
3-I'm old school, and it was unthinkable to use such a fine needle before. In the 90s, we used pharmacy-grade olive and peanut oils, then that ended, and in the 2000s, we used lab-grade ones. veterinarians (the oil was thick and painful, who knows what it was.... But there was nothing else to buy), then they also controlled the sale of veterinary products and the Lab appeared. Under South Americans from Venezuela, Mexico, Brazil... There were no other options... And the oily bases were dense and the substances, who knows where they came from.
Your lack of accepting new ideas is the reason for this crash out? Seriously?
Now everyone knows that most of the big guys use AAS, and they even see their idols on TikTok and like that people know they use AAS.

Before, even drinking a protein shake or taking supplements was like doping with something that would kill you, that's how most people saw it.... Hydroxycut contained ephedrine, remember the Musclemag magazines, where their ads featured Celltech, Hydroxycut, and others, with photos of Lee Priest, or Sombaty, with pictures of before (Him in Bulk) and after taking these supplements (Before the competition). Celltech was 75% sugar and the rest creatine at a price of $60 for 100g.... What times, we were deceived by advertising and didn't have discussion forums :) :) :) **
How does that have any connection to what needle size you use?!!?!?
5- with this needle, I don't need to heat the product, at home temperature, between 18/25º depending on the time of year, you take the vial from the cabinet and it's enough to load and inject comfortably and quickly, I don't have to take 15 minutes. in the loading process...
Great, I inject almost 1cc everyday exclusively with insulin needles and I don't heat it up. My syringe fills up in 2 minutes and I inject in 15s.
Testo with coconut oil and MCT
Donvitosharkone shared the list of which oils are used. No driada products use cocnut oil, all use sesame or sesame+MCT, except test E and DHB, which use grapeseed+MCT.
As I said, let everyone publish their opinions and experiences, and value those of others even if they don't fully agree, especially when they are not "crazy." Because I wonder about the G18 or G19. Why were they designed back in the day? To cause harm and lesions, so you inject SYNTHOL....
So I posted my opinion and you disliked it and did a lengthy post about how you are oldschool and hardcore, because... you use a worse option for injecting, that has only one reason to be used and you apply it everywhere? Ok...

Would you use G29 if you had thick skin, with a BF of 15%, in a glute to inject 400mg of pharmacy-grade PRIMOBOLAM, which contains 100mg of metenolone enanthate per 1ml injectable solution? The other components are: benzyl benzoate and castor oil.
Why would I inject so much primo in one shot?? I'd just inject more frequently. Also I do have thicker skin and I'm definitively around atleast 18% bodyfat because I'm bulking. Still using insulin pins everyday. And yes, half of what I inject everyday is primo. And thankfully driada doesn't use castor oil (it would makes sense in testosterone undecanoate).



My orginal post was half joke, I sometimes use comparisons. And you went on a tirade. I have nothing to add, I think I debunked every point you made. I concede that you need longer needles for injecting glutes, but we have 25G needles that are 2,54cm (one icnh) long. Besides for drawing, there is hardly a reason to use 23G (maybe if it's the only thing you have access to). Everything else is just not relevant to the discussion, or you trying to justify using worse solutions to a problem by saying how hardcore and old-school you are. I don't want to finish this post sounding like I'm attacking you. If you want to use 23G, go on. I can't force you to not do it. I think I made a coherent post and we do not need to continue this debate.
 
""""It also hurts me to read such closed opinions without a more detailed explanation..." I don't think anyone has the absolute truth, especially in something with so many variables..."""

I apologise and correct myself, it seems that you do have the absolute truth, living with a surgeon.
*Irony mode

Greetings

P.S.: Don't forget that experience is a degree, even if we are analogue, we always have opinions that can be interesting.
 
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