Expert Answered Tamoxifen and Enclomiphene

[Silva]

Hello all!
I have been consistently training for 2 years now with good lean mass gains, im 95kg 1,76m height , im around 25% body fat for many years but i plan to get a bit leaner now, im 35, i did blood tests and all is in normal values.
So im doing my first cycle of testo 250 + primo 300 + HGH 3iu/day, im also adding 1000iu of HCG after a couple weeks in , It is presented as a part of this cycle to take nolvados(tamoxifen) and enclomilad(enclomiphene) 1 or 2 tabs a day, i know and understand already what their effect on the body. This is also something to take on PCT and this i understand why also.
I could find alot of videos on this 2 but about PCT, nothing related to during cycle.

My question is , should i really take those 2 meds during cycle from the beggining as a preventive measure ? or why should i take them?

Thank you very mutch in advance!

 

[Donvitosharkone]

Hello all!
I have been consistently training for 2 years now with good lean mass gains, im 95kg 1,76m height , im around 25% body fat for many years but i plan to get a bit leaner now, im 35, i did blood tests and all is in normal values.
So im doing my first cycle of testo 250 + primo 300 + HGH 3iu/day, im also adding 1000iu of HCG after a couple weeks in , It is presented as a part of this cycle to take nolvados(tamoxifen) and enclomilad(enclomiphene) 1 or 2 tabs a day, i know and understand already what their effect on the body. This is also something to take on PCT and this i understand why also.
I could find alot of videos on this 2 but about PCT, nothing related to during cycle.

My question is , should i really take those 2 meds during cycle from the beggining as a preventive measure ? or why should i take them?

Thank you very mutch in advance!

Welcome, Silva!

First, congratulations on your progress. Two years of consistent training is a good start, but at 95 kg and around 25% body fat, I’d personally focus on getting leaner before considering a cycle.

Now, regarding your question: No, I wouldn’t automatically take Nolvadex and enclomiphene during a cycle as a preventive measure (but is a really common question)

Both are SERMs, but they don’t work like aromatase inhibitors. They don’t directly lower estrogen levels, and taking them together doesn’t guarantee protection against side effects or prevent testosterone suppression.

Enclomiphene is generally used to stimulate your natural testosterone production, which becomes a different situation when you’re already introducing external testosterone.

Tamoxifen has specific medical uses, including certain cases of gynecomastia, but that doesn’t mean everyone needs it from day one.

My bigger concern is that you’re introducing testosterone, Primo, HGH, HCG and potentially two SERMs on your very first cycle. That’s a lot of variables for someone still learning how his body responds.

Honestly. I would reconsider the cycle for now, work on reducing body fat, and review your bloodwork with a qualified doctor before adding anything.

One question: Who designed this protocol, and what exactly are you trying to achieve over the next six months? We can help if needed! @Sam Bjorn is a really good expert, in case you want to have a second opinion too

From my perspective, I would rather help you build a solid foundation than see you spend months managing unnecessary complications.

Shark

 

[Sam Bjorn]

Hello all!
I have been consistently training for 2 years now with good lean mass gains, im 95kg 1,76m height , im around 25% body fat for many years but i plan to get a bit leaner now, im 35, i did blood tests and all is in normal values.
So im doing my first cycle of testo 250 + primo 300 + HGH 3iu/day, im also adding 1000iu of HCG after a couple weeks in , It is presented as a part of this cycle to take nolvados(tamoxifen) and enclomilad(enclomiphene) 1 or 2 tabs a day, i know and understand already what their effect on the body. This is also something to take on PCT and this i understand why also.
I could find alot of videos on this 2 but about PCT, nothing related to during cycle.

My question is , should i really take those 2 meds during cycle from the beggining as a preventive measure ? or why should i take them?

Thank you very mutch in advance!

Overall, using enclomiphene and Nolvadex together, especially during the cycle, looks quite strange regardless of the context. Maybe something got mixed up here?

Have you already started your cycle, or are you only planning it? I completely agree with @Donvitosharkone. It would be worth reconsidering the cycle a bit, at least the dosages, and starting lower. 300 mg of Primo could push your estradiol very close to zero. I would keep Primo at 100 mg.

Please send a photo of your current physique and your blood test results. That will help us.

 

[Silva]

Thank you very mutch for your reply i really apreciate and understand what you mean.
Concerning to those 2 meds its my bad!! i misunderstood! those 2 meds are for PCT. Sorry about this.

Bundles - Beginner Clean Bulk (Primos) this is the cycle in dryada. And it talks about 250 test 300 primo per week, is it wrong ?
Im trying to achive some lean mass while also lose some fat .
I just started it one week ago.

In this case what should be the the ratio testo - primo? , ive read and saw some videos online where people say that primo should always be a little bit higher then testo, others a 1:1 ratio is good , others say 1.5testo:1 primo....i guess it depends on the individual.

I was believing 300 was ok because its what says in the cycle , being the purpose to get some lean mass and burn some fat , wich is what i want.

Anyways i will trust what you said and lower the primobolan the next shots and in 1 mounth i will do blood tests again and check on that estradiol!

 

[Donvitosharkone]

Thank you very mutch for your reply i really apreciate and understand what you mean.
Concerning to those 2 meds its my bad!! i misunderstood! those 2 meds are for PCT. Sorry about this.

Bundles - Beginner Clean Bulk (Primos) this is the cycle in dryada. And it talks about 250 test 300 primo per week, is it wrong ?
Im trying to achive some lean mass while also lose some fat .
I just started it one week ago.

In this case what should be the the ratio testo - primo? , ive read and saw some videos online where people say that primo should always be a little bit higher then testo, others a 1:1 ratio is good , others say 1.5testo:1 primo....i guess it depends on the individual.

I was believing 300 was ok because its what says in the cycle , being the purpose to get some lean mass and burn some fat , wich is what i want.

Anyways i will trust what you said and lower the primobolan the next shots and in 1 mounth i will do blood tests again and check on that estradiol!

Morning Silva!!

No worries! Glad we cleared up the confusion about Nolvadex and enclomiphene.

And no, I’m not saying the bundle is wrong. But a standard bundle isn’t necessarily the right protocol for every individual. That’s especially important on your first cycle.

@Sam Bjorn raised a good point about estradiol. There’s no magic Test-to-Primo ratio, and more Primo doesn’t automatically mean better results. Your individual response matters much more than what you’ve seen in videos.

Since you’ve only been on it for a week, I’d avoid making further adjustments based on guesswork. Discuss the protocol with a qualified clinician and get your bloodwork reviewed.

Also, brother, at around 25% body fat, I’d make fat loss your main priority for now. You can improve your physique significantly without chasing more compounds.

Send us your current pictures and baseline bloodwork if you’re comfortable sharing them. That will help us understand your starting point. (And if need help with the diet, also let us know!)

Keep us updated!

Shark

 

[Sam Bjorn]

Thank you very mutch for your reply i really apreciate and understand what you mean.
Concerning to those 2 meds its my bad!! i misunderstood! those 2 meds are for PCT. Sorry about this.

Bundles - Beginner Clean Bulk (Primos) this is the cycle in dryada. And it talks about 250 test 300 primo per week, is it wrong ?
Im trying to achive some lean mass while also lose some fat .
I just started it one week ago.

In this case what should be the the ratio testo - primo? , ive read and saw some videos online where people say that primo should always be a little bit higher then testo, others a 1:1 ratio is good , others say 1.5testo:1 primo....i guess it depends on the individual.

I was believing 300 was ok because its what says in the cycle , being the purpose to get some lean mass and burn some fat , wich is what i want.

Anyways i will trust what you said and lower the primobolan the next shots and in 1 mounth i will do blood tests again and check on that estradiol!

I would say this bundle needs to be reconsidered. It certainly won't suit everyone, and I definitely wouldn't recommend starting with a 1:1 ratio.

First of all, I consider these dosages unnecessarily high for a first cycle. Secondly, I would start with testosterone alone. If you want to add Primo, I would only use it as a tool to lower estradiol, at the lowest possible doses. On your first cycle, you should first understand how a single compound affects you. That's valuable experience to have.

And yes, as @Donvitosharkone said, 25% body fat isn't ideal for a first cycle. If you don't have the discipline to stick to a diet long-term, I would consider starting with Reta or Tirza before the cycle to lower your body fat percentage.

Of course, that's assuming your goal is an aesthetic physique, but judging by what you said about gaining lean muscle mass, I think that's exactly what you're aiming for.

 

[Silva]

Alright guys! i will follow a bit of what you just said it makes perfect sense. ill lower the primobolan for now, check my calourie intake even more, im losing belly fat by the day atm , and make new bloodwork in around 2/3 weeks.
My estradiol is at 21.9 pg/ml at the moment , i was reading about this now since you guys warned me and you are completly right and i understand the mechanics better now. I will keep an eye on this.

Thank you very mutch for your help Shark and Sam , your the best !

 

[Donvitosharkone]

Alright guys! i will follow a bit of what you just said it makes perfect sense. ill lower the primobolan for now, check my calourie intake even more, im losing belly fat by the day atm , and make new bloodwork in around 2/3 weeks.
My estradiol is at 21.9 pg/ml at the moment , i was reading about this now since you guys warned me and you are completly right and i understand the mechanics better now. I will keep an eye on this.

Thank you very mutch for your help Shark and Sam , you’re the best !

Silva… That’s the attitude! Glad you took the advice from both of us.

One thing worth mentioning: 21.9 pg/ml estradiol isn’t high, so there’s no reason to chase lower numbers. Keep an eye on how you feel, not just what the bloodwork says.

I would say Stay focused on your diet, avoid unnecessary changes, and review your next bloodwork with your doctor.

And keep us updated on your physique too! I’d love to see how your transformation develops.

You’re on the right track, mate. Patience and consistency!

Shark

 

[Sam Bjorn]

Alright guys! i will follow a bit of what you just said it makes perfect sense. ill lower the primobolan for now, check my calourie intake even more, im losing belly fat by the day atm , and make new bloodwork in around 2/3 weeks.
My estradiol is at 21.9 pg/ml at the moment , i was reading about this now since you guys warned me and you are completly right and i understand the mechanics better now. I will keep an eye on this.

Thank you very mutch for your help Shark and Sam , your the best !

Thanks, bro.

I'd check it again how you said and get some other blood tests done at the same time. If you need a recommended list of tests, just let me know.